Other Shorthands vs Gregg

[grahamz]

Teeline vs Gregg


I taught myself Gregg shorthand in the late 60s before going to university – I thought it would help in making notes during lecturers. I never really got proficient enough to succeed with that plan but Gregg came in useful in writing a diary and keeping the contents private. After leaving university, Gregg fell by the wayside – life became too busy with other things.

Forty years later, I came across those diaries when carrying out a loft clear-out. It took me a good while to decipher the daily entries but Gregg was, astonishingly enough, still with me. I was horrified to discover just how unhappy I was as an 18-20 year old! The misery and heartache was just too pathetic to wade through but also rather comical. If only I knew then what I know now!

The diaries took a while to put through the shredder but it inspired me to take up Gregg again to exercise my 60+ year old brain. It is then I discovered that Gregg had all but disappeared. The “Gregg Shorthand Manual Simplified” was still in print but since the 60s Gregg had undergone a bewildering number of revisions. The text of this book is pitifully out of date and no one writes letters anymore beginning with “Dear Miss Smith, Thank you for your order of 6 yards of white muslin. Yours truly”. “Yours truly”!!??

What I found on the bookshelves in the UK was “Teeline” shorthand with a couple of manuals and exercise books. I thought I had better go with what was in vogue and what was on the bookshelves. So I bought the lot and began to study it. It seems in the UK that any undergraduate reading “Journalism” at university is expected to achieve a substantial proficiency in this shorthand or else have difficulty getting a job. The book “Teeline for Journalists” is their bible. I’d be interested what the situation is in the USA. Do journalists have to be proficient in a shorthand? If so, which? If not – how come?

I was astonished just how difficult it was for me to get my head round shapes and strokes of Teeline and not interpret them as “Gregg”. It was unlearning one language for another. I persevered but felt I was just getting nowhere – Teeline just didn’t work for me. I got irritated with strokes that go through the line under some circumstances but were supposed to be written on the line and therefore be easily confused.
So I have returned to Gregg and the Teeline books are ready for the local charity second-hand bookshop!

[riftweaver]

I'm in the U.S. I was exposed to Teeline first and it inspired me to learn shorthand for the first time. I ultimately switched to Gregg because it seems to have more active supporters and fellow students online, plus a lot of readily available reading material.

[Deb]

Welcome!

I've heard about Teeline in the UK, but I don't think it's used in the US at all (but maybe I'm wrong). I searched "shorthand" on Instagram and there were a lot of people studying it for classes.

Aug 24, 2015 11:52:10 GMT -5 grahamz said:

The text of this book is pitifully out of date and no one writes letters anymore beginning with “Dear Miss Smith, Thank you for your order of 6 yards of white muslin. Yours truly”. “Yours truly”!!??

This is why I keep pressing the Your Shorthand board. It allows others to read what you have written that aren't old fashioned or out of date. I did ask to include your version of shorthand, although I keep forgetting to do it myself most of the time.

Even though some of it might be outdated, I did add in the Drills, a Write in Shorthand--Not Letters. To write other things besides letters. After you've learned shorthand, of course.

ETA: added a board Gregg Shorthand Today so that we can discuss and share how to use it today. As well as other items throughout the board to keep it current. Several drills are not letters and are more for today.

Others, please feel free to add your opinions and ideas on other versions of shorthand. Pro or con. I've tried to keep mine equal, but since I really like Gregg, it will lean more towards that. I did try to keep it civil within my post and I ask you to do the same.

[Deb]

Pitman's Shorthand vs Gregg

The original Pitman was a good shorthand.
The consents were written together as one outline.
The vowels were dots and dashes around the outlines. This would not give the writer great speed, but easy to transcribe.
When the writer wanted to gain speed or advance to a court reporting job (which demanded high speeds), they had to omit the vowels.
A few high speed writers would add some vowels for clarity, but not always the same. Later versions changed this no vowel system to one with more vowels, but not by much.

Another difference is that Pitman would be written in different areas between the lines. Using the same outline, it would be one word if it was close to the top line, it would mean something else in the middle of the two lines, and something different written on the line--three different words with the same outline, but depended on where it was written. Several shorthand systems used the same method. Gregg eliminated that which allows you to write on any paper with line width, even blank paper. You could write on blank paper with Pitman or others, you'd just have to make sure your outlines all line up. Just a note: from the looks, some even started below the line.

The next difference is that Pitman is one of the shorthand systems to use shading. Meaning a short straight line that is thick means one thing and the same outline in a thin mark means something different. Pencil's could be used and later flexible nibs on fountain pens were used for this purpose. Gregg does not use shading at all. So any pen or pencil can be used.

There were or are a few versions of Pitnam just like in Gregg. There is also a Benn Pitman and an Isaac Pitman shorthand. Benn was a later version of Pitman and several preferred that. Ben Pitman was the popular version in America. Most refer Pitman Shorthand to Isaac Pitman.

There is a New Era version from around 1920 that some learn because it's free on the internet and one of the better versions. There is a website to learn this shorthand HERE.

Even though Gregg originated in England, Pitman had been there for years prior to Gregg Shorthand and dominated the shorthand community. Gregg was the choice in America, where John R. Gregg moved and lived.

ETA:

Here's a comparison. I found a 1917 Pitman dictionary on internet archive and just randomly choose 3 outlines. Note the vowels are marks made after or before the outline which slow speed. Also note the "-ble" ending is thicker, so you have to either press on your fountain pen or go back over it with your pencil I could not find the two outlines in the Gregg Anniversary dictionary, so I just used the theory and created these.

[Deb]

SpeedWriting Shorthand vs Gregg

There are a few different versions of SpeedWriting. I learned a later, mostly longhand version in a night class (they had eliminated symbol shorthand in America and moved to this shorthand--it was found in several Jr. Colleges that focused on secretary studies).

Speedwriting is an alphabetic shorthand with a few symbols to aid in speed. You used cursive longhand. You did not write capital cursive letters unless specified. A few cursive outlines were modified.
The letter 't' was not crossed to save time, the letters 'i' and 'j' were not dotted to save time.
The letters 'b' and 'f' were started at the top of the line, no fancy flourish at the beginning.
The letter 'l' had to have the loop and the letter 't' had to be closed so you could tell the difference (remember you didn't cross the letter 't').
Beginning and end flourishes were also eliminated. On the letter 's'you closed the cursive letter, but did not add the ending flourish. The letter 'f' started at the top of the line, went down, add the loop and finish off--no flourish at the end of the word. The letter 'b' was just the same, but of course written on the line. Several others were the same way. This way you gained speed. This almost looked like non-cursive longhand, but joined.

It used sound to write the words. So some vowels were eliminated. For example, "coupon" was written "qpn" because it sounds like a 'q' at the beginning. They eliminated the 'k' except in special instances because you heard the 'c' in most cases. The letter 'm' was a long curve similar to the 'g' in Gregg. The 'n' was a short curve, similar to the 'k' in Gregg.

Sounds were combined just like in Gregg. The sound for "ch" was a capital 'C'. The sound for 'sh' was a modified cursive letter 's' that was all pointed like a star with the end of the 's' coming out (unlike the regular 's' with no flourish at the end).

Penmanship was important for transcription.

Speed would only be 100wpm at top speed. The other lady in my class who was in the intermediate/advanced section (same class, different area) was 120wpm plus, but included Gregg outlines. This was basically for taking notes in meetings or other items, but not verbatim.

This book, 1984 version, is the one I learned.

I can't remember much of it, so this is a rough sample of what I remember. I think the "ing" may have been a dot, I used an underline here. Also, the word 'in' was probably just something else. I also think the letter 'b' was with a closed loop like print longhand.

[Deb]

Gregg vs. Gregg

There are a few different versions of Gregg Shorthand. Versions of Gregg Shorthand -- with a little detail about the versions here on this board. The website Shorthand, Shorthand, Shorthand shows pictures of the various types/systems/versions.

Which is the best, easiest, etc?

THE BEST
That is whatever you put your mind to. You can learn any version and you will find it the best for you. Depending on what you need it for and what you want to use it for might be a factor in choosing which version.
I found the hard copy of the teachers manual book of the Anniversary edition. I had all ready learned it, mostly through the functional method (longer books), but also the little brown Anni book. That's why I used the Anniversary edition for this board. I really like this version, although I do think Diamond Jubilee Series a "pettier" Gregg shorthand, which I learned after Speedwriting (mentioned above).

EASIEST
One of the later versions (I would say after 1970 or after the Diamond Jubilee Series). These have less brief forms (abbreviations). Also more of the outlines were written out in full. There are also less phrases.
The first versions can be a little harder as had some symbols that were used in different ways (the letter 's' for example). Also the letter "r" was disjoined on a lot of words.

FASTEST TO WRITE
The earliest versions. Anniversary and Pre-Anniversary have been know to write well over 200wpm. There was one lady on the internet who said she got up to 170 wpm with Diamond Jubilee Series. I was able to only get up to 120wpm on DJS with short works. I haven't tried more then 120wpm on Anni, so I can't say if it's faster--for me. You can write faster in later versions with the Expert Speed Courses, if available. However, they do use some of the Anniversary brief forms and phrases (I have the Simplified version and noticed that) as well as unique forms for court reporting, legal or government work that required fast speeds.

CHANGING SYSTEMS
I did find it hard and easy to change from DJS to Anni. There were many similarities that it was a breeze to read most of it. There were a few newer theories and brief forms, phrases, etc., that were new to me, so that made it a bit hard to relearn those. It is possible to change systems or versions.

[Deb]

Ford Improved Shorthand vs Gregg Shorthand

www.fordshorthand.com/

I just found this, so I know very little. It was developed (or copyrighted) in 2012. This is what I see on the link (feel free to review it for more).

It looks like he wanted a newer shorthand, rather then "outdated" shorthand. Makes sense. This shorthand is more for just writing down your own notes. It looks like it uses all letters (constants and vowels) that you might hear or want to write. Nothing is eliminated in the lettering.

It is not combined, like cursive longhand or other shorthands, like Gregg.

It sounds like you can write this faster then longhand and keep things private (like personal journals). Should take about 15 minutes to learn or as long as it takes for you to learn a new outline for each letter of the English alphabet (for me, it would be longer then 15 minutes).

So it's very easy to learn. No special rules, phrases, brief forms or special abbreviations. The symbols are on one webpage.

Would this be better then Gregg Shorthand

Only if you want to write in secret and don't need much speed.

Gregg will give you the speed you need in writing. If you do like to take down notes faster then the average writer, then Gregg (or another similar shorthand) would be preferred. He mentions that there are recording devices, but check out the advantages and disadvantages here: greggshorthand.proboards.com/thread/1336/advantages-disadvantages-shorthand-recording-devices .

[Deb]

Ten Day Shorthand (1918) vs Gregg (any year version)

Ten Day Shorthand
This book is available on Internet Archive here if you wish to review it as well.

Key points:
--uses sounds for outlines
--outlines can be in "...one of three positions... written above the line… on the line of writing... written thru the line of writing...".
--written "heavy or shaded" or "light or unshaded"
--book is written in the old form of sounds for longhand. For example, 'thoroly' is 'thoroughly' and 'altho' is 'although'. It's not often and easy to figure out.
--vowels use dots, dashes, etc., when you need to indicate them in a word (similar to Pitman). However, if there is "a long vowel preceeds [sound spelling] a single consonant stroke, it is well to write the vowel tick joined to the consonant stroke for legibility..." That means exceptions to the rule.
--Phrases are also used
--Prefixes and affixes may be joined or may not (similar to Gregg)
--Wordsigns [brief forms] "...must be carefully studied and fully learned". Wordsigns and alphabetical phonetic are listed on page 28 (and other pages). There are 3 columns of 22 rows and several outlines represent more then one word. The book states "Until you thoroly master page 28, you cannot properly proceed with the rest of the system;..." I'm guessing you could thoroughly master over 66 words/outlines in 10 days while learning theory.

Gregg Shorthand
Basically has a few similarities to this shorthand, although the book does try to discredit Gregg Shorthand in the introduction.

--no shading, no special pen or pressing of a pencil.
--written on the line or anywhere a writer feels comfortable
--very few dashes, dots, etc., and less as the system advanced to office work

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My opinion: the shorthand looks very much like Pitman and if you wanted to learn one similar to Pitman but didn't want the length of time to learn Pitman, you could look at this version. Although I still prefer Gregg over any that requires exact writing above, on or below a line as well as all those dots and dashes for vowels.