How exactly to write in Gregg-ruled notebook

[Jack]

Hi all, is there some convention I'm missing regarding how to use the Gregg-ruled steno pad? In some of the taller outlines I end up with one word covering 2+ lines vertically and that gets a bit confusing when I go back to read my own writing. For example, for "I have not been able", when I have to make the V and B a full line's height, plus the A's on the end, I end up with at least 2 lines' vertical height, and more if I didn't make it shorter than I'm supposed to.

In the writing in the Simplified manual, the lines are spaced rather far apart, but still with overlap. Am I meant to skip lines in the notebook so everything doesn't clash together? I have trouble also with horizontal space, getting 3 or 4 words at the most fit into a single half-line, but that, I think, is because I just need a finer pen. I'm looking into an Esterbrook with a 9555 nib but would appreciate any other suggestions, even if not a fountain pen (maybe there is a good felt-tip that you might suggest -- I tried a Sharpie pen but found it a bit too slippery on my pad. Maybe I need a thicker-barreled version of it though, so I can hold it better).

There is also a related thing that confuses me. In the book, some tall outlines are begun at the bottom of the line rather than the top. "I have not been able" is started at the top of the line and extends nonetheless into the full height of the next line, but "register" is started at the bottom of one line and drawn through the next. I don't understand this; it seems arbitrary and messy. Why not start that outline at the top of the line too? Then it would be centered and I would not stumble over it in reading the next line because most of the word is not even in its own line!


Thanks.

Edit - Bought Sharpie Pen Grip (not retractable) last night and it seems good. Doesn't bleed through or feather so it's not a big deal if I have to write slowly and it has better friction than the original model.

[Deb]

You may end up covering two lines. In which case you can either skip that next line completely or use what space is there for you to use. Since the outline on that second line will extend up, when you read your shorthand notes, you will know that it has nothing to do with the characters on that second line.

[Deb]

"In the writing in the Simplified manual, the lines are spaced rather far apart, but still with overlap. Am I meant to skip lines in the notebook so everything doesn't clash together? I have trouble also with horizontal space, getting 3 or 4 words at the most fit into a single half-line, but that, I think, is because I just need a finer pen. I'm looking into an Esterbrook with a 9555 nib but would appreciate any other suggestions, even if not a fountain pen (maybe there is a good felt-tip that you might suggest -- I tried a Sharpie pen but found it a bit too slippery on my pad. Maybe I need a thicker-barreled version of it though, so I can hold it better)."

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I write large, so it's rare that I get the same words in a line as the manuals. Or other text books. Just write how many you can on a line and move to the next.

Yes, it's a great example, but we all have different handwriting.

I think the Anniversary FM I can do pretty good, but there are some books out there that I can't get the same amount of outlines on a steno line as the book.

[Deb]

"There is also a related thing that confuses me. In the book, some tall outlines are begun at the bottom of the line rather than the top. "I have not been able" is started at the top of the line and extends nonetheless into the full height of the next line, but "register" is started at the bottom of one line and drawn through the next. I don't understand this; it seems arbitrary and messy. Why not start that outline at the top of the line too? Then it would be centered and I would not stumble over it in reading the next line because most of the word is not even in its own line! "

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Because "I have not been able' is a phrase, that can be written differently. Usually the first letter indicates where the outline will start. And since "I have not been able" also has the B outline, it will extend very long. Of course there are some that extend pretty far down.

[Deb]

Here's an example of something I just wrote up. I hope this helps.
Ignore that there's no such word as 'sab', it's there for an example of sizes. Also I may have wrote "spent" wrong... yea I"m pretty sure... anyone care to correct me and give me an example?

ETA: I wrote "at that time" in between two words, I knew I could do that. If not, I would have wrote it at the end of the line or on another line all together.

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[Jack]

Great, thanks a lot. That helps somewhat. I think I may have been writing some things a bit large, apart from the issues of line height, I mean. This will be handy to refer to later.

[christine]

Nov 15, 2011 12:24:36 GMT -5 Deb said:

Here's an example of something I just wrote up. I hope this helps.
Ignore that there's no such word as 'sab', it's there for an example of sizes. Also I may have wrote "spent" wrong... yea I"m pretty sure... anyone care to correct me and give me an example?

That looks beautiful. Are you an artist too? Mine looks nothing like that!

[Deb]

Thank you
No artist. Trust me. Just lots of practice.

Although I do have a fairly good "artist eyes' I think, if that's what it's called. I use to help my mom with her oil paintings sometimes (constructive critic) and I crochet and do other crafts (most not even from patterns or instructions).

Just keep practicing and you'll get there. I've been writing Gregg Shorthand for years. I started with Diamon Jubilee and then stopped for a while, even giving my books to a second hand store. Then I started up again and bought Anniversary manuls.

[Deb]

One of my favorite for drills, practice and penmanship is Fundamental Drills in Gregg Shorthand www.greggshorthand.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preface&action=display&thread=351

This book has a lot of practice on similar outlines that you write several times. This will allow you to write great shorthand.

[Deb]

I wanted to write the shorthand again, showing another way to write the outlines.

This ones shows "at that time" going up and through another outline. Sometimes that will happen. When taking dictation, I find that I'm not thinking about where outlines are going.

I also mess up on "I can" and wrote "I go", so I crossed it out. But that's what happens and you just move on. Usually I put one stroke of an X through it, but I wanted to show it crossed off better in this example. One stroke through the outline is all you need, those intersections are hardly ever used and it's quick.

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[Jack]

Cool, thanks. It's good to have an idea of how things can look and still be readable.

[Deb]

With practice you will know where the shorthand outlines are at.

Another idea is to copy a page of shorthand (or print out a page) and draw lines where the steno book lines would be. I wouldn't do this in your textbook as that can cause you not to realize what an out line is. At least it would me.

[Deb]

Another thread with clips from a Gregg book that talks about the Size of Shorthand Characters.

www.greggshorthand.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=qestionanswer&action=display&thread=628

[Deb]

Center Line on steno pads

The reason for the center line is that it's quicker to lift your pen from the center line to the start of the next line then from one edge to the other. You don't have to move your entire arm, just your hand using your wrist.

Another use that others have found helpful is to write down one side of the notebook. Use the other column for notes you need or the dictator may have.
Check out the "The Cornell Note-Taking Method" here: greggshorthand.proboards.com/thread/1467/cornell-method

In sermons, you can write the sermon in one hand and then reference the scripture or book in the other. Could also be used when a bible verse is given without the actual verse. Write down the bible reference as you're taking notes, then later put the actual verse on the next column. This way when you transcribe or refer later, you have the actual verse.

I also thought it might be good to use both sides for notes.

Put names on one side, vacation days of the employees on the other (can all be done in shorthand for confidentiality).

For practice dictation, you could use one column for the dictation. The other column for practice on outlines you need to correct and work on.

[Deb]

Well if you like your paper to stand up, then you would want to take the covers and make a upside down "V" and it will stand up. Also flipping the pages takes longer. With just using one side, you can, as you write, move the page up, quickly flip it down (not even necessarily on the back) and then start on the next page. Of course when you're done using one side of the steno book you can flip it over and use the other side.

Check out Writing Materials - Notebook for more tips.